4.4 Million year-old bipedal skeleton found, “Ardi”. We will leave this discussion as the headline through today, let’s break 50 replies on this topic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/ardi-oldest-human-skeleto_n_306033.html
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/ardipithecus/ardipithecus.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/obama-wins-nobel-peace-pr_n_314907.html
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One question for all the briliant people commenting. Who would you have chosen for the Nobel Prize? If you say Obama didn’t deserve it, you have to atleast say who you thought should have.
I would have voted for Hillary Clinton. She has been pretty much single-handedly making the world a better place behind the facade of government officials otherwise.
Oh yes, Hillary all the way. I would also vote for her!
KorKeya, are your plans to shut down other opinions once someone states who they think should win? You should let us know who you would choose… Your “brilliant people” comment sounds sarcastic.
No. I don’t want to shut down another persons opinion. I felt that out of all the comments I read, that was opposing his peace prize win, no one was even recognizing anything positive the guy has said or done, non what so ever. Someone recieves this prize all the time and they are picked amongst other people so if you oppose obama getting it, there has to be a person that you think should have gotten the prize. Its like telling kids not to smoke or do drugs but not offering them an alternative to doing it.
Your comment validates my point. I didn’t oppose his win for the Noble Peace Prize because I didn’t have a list of people whom I felt should have won it. Therefore I thought about all the reasons that the brilliant people that chose him, might have picked him in the first place. Unless of course we want to call those people idiots.
Which brings me to another point. It appears as if people were pissed at Obama as if he picked himself. I mean he didn’t have anything to do with it. Just like he doesn’t have anything to do with the state of health care in this country or the economy, or the credit crunch that happened a year ago, or the slump in the housing market, or any other issue that affects millions of people in this country.
I think that at the end of the day that we are either the problem or the solution to the problem. The man won a prize, just congratulate him. It seems to me to be a bit petty when we turm something that is supposed to be positive into a negative.
Sorry it took so long to reply.
He hasn’t done anything to deserve it.
He hasn’t done anything at all, zilch, nodda? Explain why you think this…
We think he didn’t do anything for the same reason I believe there’s not an elephant in my room.
Please tell me why you believe that there no pink squirrels under your bed.
WHAT A LOAD OF BULL.
Hahaha. There’s a pretty good article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/obamas-nobel-prize-inspir_n_315167.html
What needs to be examined is his impact on the world from those outside our borders. He’s got the most powerful country (at least for now) in the world going back in a more healthy direction, just now we are finally joining the effort to lower our pollution output from coal and aggressively instituting plans for renewable energy and increased efficiency. We are making a sincere effort to bridge peace between the Arab world and Israel. We are no longer the “we’re gonna do whatever the hell we want country” in the way that we are willing to reestablish communication even with our adversaries. The world’s been falling apart for a decade now, the warning signs were there in the stock market (has anyone heard of a bubble?) healthcare has been a growing concern since the Clinton era but it was killed due to special interests (unless you are in the upper one percent club, they don’t have your interests in mind) and we’ve been pissing away billions of dollars and our nation’s children on the stupid Iraq war, and we can’t get anything really meaningful done in the house and senate because it’s become a pissing contest between the two parties.(whatever happened to the intelligent sane republicans?) America and more so, the world is in it’s rebuilding stage. We’re just getting started and it’s gonna take alot of work, patience, and it will be painful (all meaningful change is) but these steps that he’s taking (after nearly a decade of wrong, ignorant, arrogant, and harmful steps) are in the right direction, and for being brave enough bring the US back into a leadership positon and setting the tone of a brighter future for everyone (not just in the US), yeah, i’ll give it to him. It sends the message that this is what every leader should be going for. And it’s a damn site more than any of us (or the damn naysayers) could ever hope to accomplish. So until you yourself think of something better…
David, this is a pretty good argument and I can totally agree with some of your views about the current state of the country (especially how it has been going to hell the past decade) and also that it will take a long time before progress is made – and progress to be shown. However, on the other hand, you kind of point out like several other people here that change is coming, but nothing has happened to be worthy of a Nobel Prize as of yet… Maybe it should be awarded once he actually accomplishes some of this change.
Done you consider the “Cash for Clunkers” his best shot at controlling pollution and instituting plans for energy efficiency??? I consider his CASH for CLUNKERS disaster a case of misuing hard working people’s tax dollars and donating it to those who could not really afford to buy a new car. But now they all have new cars and debt they can not afford (cuz if they could, they would have bought a new car before the incentive was offered) . The program has destroyed the business for used car dealers because all those “CLUNKERS” were destroyed. Many of those cars were in very good condition and very reliable cars…but they were uselessly discarded…. BRILLIANT IDEA OBAMA.
As far as healthcare care issue goes…. you are lost. I am not in the upper 1% or even the upper 40%. I am a nurse who works very hard to keep people healthy. In 28 years of working, I have never seen ANYONE turned away from a hospital becuase they did not have insurance. I have seen illegal immigrants who have no insurance and no right to be in our country take up beds needed by AMERICANS who had health insurance though. Healthcare costs are outrageous and few can afford to pay for expenses out of their pockets. A few of us have found a solution for that…. we go to work, pay for health insurance and pay our copays. When the copays and deductibles get to be too much, we get a second job or send our spouses to work and have them sign up for healthcare insurance. We don’t just sit around waiting for government handouts that ultimately come from hard-working, tax-paying citizens.
Anyone familiar with the old saying, “Those who do not work, shall not eat.” Someone famous said that back in the Old Testament Days.
What did he do other than talk the big talk? I thought you had to do something to get that prize. He didn’t deserve it, he hasn’t done anything but take a bad situation and make it worse, the Nobel Peace Prize means nothing now.
I’m in total agreement. He’s a facade of talk and senselessness. There is no action to back up his “plans”…
Obama is an idiot, I don’t care if that’s off topic, inappropriate or anything – the last thing he EVER needed was a damn NOBEL PEACE PRIZE! How about we give him a mouthful about our fucked up economy, spiraling healthcare problem, and SERIOUS issues with third world countries that conflict highly with nobel prizes… Sorry for the vent…
Don’t apologize for being frustrated and disappointed in our president’s performance. Your “venting” tends to be popular opinion now-a-days. We need more people need to stand upand voice thier opinions and tell Mr. President that we have had enough of his BS already. You certainly are not going to hear the negativism that pervails in the US through the liberal news media.
You’re right about that… If there was only an easy way for voices like ours to be presented to political figures in an easier, frequent way. But certainly, his talk is BS and is rather repetitive if you listen to the speeches and news headlines. He has made the sale, but as far as delivering the product…. Yeah, right.
He is our President and leader, of course he should be worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize…. I mean, it’s not like you just go out and become president with no effort. The guy has worked his entire life to become what he has and the peace prize is merely a small reward for his accomplishments.
if that’s the case every president we have had should get the Nobel Peace Prize, what’s so great about him?
He actually does have outstanding outlook on international peace and has ties with many countries that will bring us closer together. You have to look at the bigger picture, most presidents are focused on war spending budgets and other non-peace-related power drives.
so true
(to Jeff’s comment)
I second this
Merely being President of the USA does not constitute grounds for the Nobel Peace Prize. If it did, all our presidents should have been awarded the prize. The Nobel Peace Prize is not awarded for achieving “things” in life. If it were, I would be awarded the prize. And having a great “OUTLOOK on international peace” does not constitute grounds for receiving the prize. Most people have great outlooks. The NOBLE PEACE PRIZE is awarded for efforts and “accomplishments” in achieving peace. President Obama has not met that criteria. He can not even bring the conservatives and liberals to the same playing field to socialize the healthcare system in his own country. You also must consider that sometimes Peace can only be achieved through war.
I can see your points, but he has made great efforts in the United Nations and is a very popular leader, in fact, probably the most famed. I believe he will continue with his successes and it will show the great amount of peace that is within the guidelines of the Nobel Prize. Even if you feel he hasn’t yet deserved the prize, doesn’t mean he won’t “earn” it over time. Don’t be so quick to down his ability as a leader.
Obama has definitely earned fame and honor, but not necessarily in the form of a Nobel Peace Prize. I feel like he is getting a lot more credit than what he has actually accomplished. If you really look at the situation he has done a lot more talking and “motivating” than any real action.
Agree
Thank you! I mean really, he’s done a lot and hasn’t even been in office for a year.
uh, i don’t really think so. he’s not a bad person or anything, and it’s obviously not his fault that a group of people voted him for that award, but i don’t think he’s really done anything to deserve it. i’m sure there are other people who’ve worked harder for peace & didn’t get that award. that’s not really fair.
I’m rather impartial to the award…
You should elaborate on why it is you’re impartial, it’s clear he doesn’t deserve it.
I’m cooler than Obama, so I don’t really think so.
Discuss if you want?
Hahahahaha! I saw this yesterday, its PRICELESS! I’m going to start saying that.
yonas 2:26 pm on October 17, 2009 Permalink |
Hey there,
If you really want to know the answer! Why don’t you go to Ethiopia? I tell you one thing for sure; just go to Ethiopia and for sure you will get the right answer! You will discover the hidden proof that shows the existence of God (Egziabher). Luci and Ardi, they both simply shows how science and scientist fight over religious politics.
Egziabher ale. Zariem, Tinantinam Negem endihum Lezelalem Yinoral!
MX 11:32 am on October 19, 2009 Permalink |
Is this some sort of religious implication? I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here…
mintflo 10:39 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
Currently working on getting the replies to go more than 5 levels deep so the debates can continue!
mintflo 1:13 pm on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
If you’re in a conversation with several comments deep and there is no longer a reply, click “reply” on the original post you’re wanting to discuss. Check for newer comments to your comments at the bottom of the page…
Kyle 7:56 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
This is a false dichotomy. “Science” doesn’t make anything. “Science” is a method of acquiring knowledge of how the natural world works. People use knowledge acquired by the scientific method to make things. For instance, scientific method is applied to the study of electricity and conductance. Based on that knowledge the light bulb was created. The theory of evolution explains the biodiversity of the world. Evolution doesn’t “cause” animals to evolve. Animals do evolve, and the theory of evolution explains how this process works. Evolution didn’t “make” ardi, but, rather, makes predictions about how species change over time in response to environmental pressure and genetic changes. Ardi fits the evolutionary model. One alternative is that God poofed everything into existance. If you believe that fine, but it doesn’t help us understand anything. For instance, evolutionary theory helps us to understand how a strain of the influenza virus could infect only swine at one time and then suddenly become able to infect humans. It also helps us to design ways to combat the disease. We could say that God created the influenza virus, but that doesn’t help us figure out how to cure it. We could say that Ardi was placed here by aliens. We could say that Ardi is part of Lord Zenon’s elaborate plot to enslave alien souls in human bodies (or whatever foolishness scientoligists believe). You could say that Ardi is you in a former life and because of your good deeds you have been reincarnated as a modern human. There are many possible explanations. The discriminating criterion in terms of validity between these explanations is the testability of scientific theories. Another discriminating criterion is usefulness. Scientific theories have an abundance of usefulness. These other theories act as a placebo or pacifier at best.
Archer Howard 8:42 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
I don’t believe the question is stating that Science is creating anything, rather it is implying the never-ending debate between Scientific Theory and Religion. As for most people, it isn’t taken to be quite so literal. You have a good variety of arguments considering each situation you proposed, but they are just restatements of general knowledge…
So I have to ask, after rambling about possibilities for a while… Which of the situations you proposed makes the most sense to you? What is it you believe in?
Kyle 9:02 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
I like the idea of PEARLism. That is Phiscal Evidence And Reasoned Logic. At least so far as explanations of the physical world are concerned. Philosophical beliefs for me are much less well defined and would take a very long time to try and articulate.
The point of my rambling off a lot of random possibilities was to illustrate the difference between how scientific theory is usefull for understanding the physical world and religious theories are not.
My other intention was to try and combat the common misconception of what science is. Many people think that science is facts like “water boils at 100 degrees C.” Science is a process for understanding the world. It is also self correcting and reflects the best current state of knowledge. Many people tend to look at a single contraversy within science and dismiss all of it. As Bill O’reilly said “You don’t have all the answers so I’m throwing in with Jesus.” Religious dogma is not self correcting and often reality is twisted to fit that dogma. The god of the gaps is pointless patch designed to make you feel better. However, with the comfort of the god of the gaps comes many negative effects such as homophobia, racism, sexism, and jihad. I don’t think religion adds anything of real use.
Archer Howard 9:18 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
I am familiar with it, it certainly does differentiate some differences between the physical world and the “spiritual” world. Something I find very interesting is that, as time passes and more of these Scientific discoveries are made (or in your case, understandings of the natural world), more people are beginning to believe these theories.
Religion doesn’t seem to carry the same weight that it used to. I believe a lot of church people are subconsciously realizing that organized religion is a corporation, and that the science world is slowly proving their beliefs wrong (in a sense, I can’t speak for everyone). Anyway, it’s all a very interesting conversational piece. It’s great to hear people get heated, like some of the comments below…
Kyle 9:30 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink
it is no surprise that people get heated over religion. If they really believe what it says then the stakes could not be higher. Condemnation of their beliefs and god often carries with it eternal damnation and torture. Likewise if you lead their children away from the faith then those children will suffer for eternity. If I really believed someone was threatening to cause my family members to be tortured for eternity I would get angry too.
mintflo 8:45 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
Great conversations guys! Please take a moment and invite others into the debate and spread the word. Even though new questions will be posted, this discussion will be up indefinitely and will continue.
The more that join in, the better the conversation gets!
Frank 6:42 pm on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
If Ardi being discovered proved that we are closer to primate than we knew before. Then this brings up the question, why are people not understanding that we now know and can prove that we have a stronger link to a primate? But there still is the question of how we arose from gases and space dust, who or what created that?
Ad Vogele 7:04 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
Science is a way man begins to understand the miraculous work of God’s creation. I am curious to see what we uncover in the future =) I am a designer and as a creative person I know that all design goes through an evolutionary process. Therefore as a Christian, I have no problem accepting Ardi as a stage in the evolutionary process to human existence. Things change over time everyday. It’s a fact of life =)
Tessa 8:35 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
Hi, are you saying that you’re somewhere in between? Both a believer in God and in Science? That’s an interesting view, seeing most people are strong believers in one or the other…
Ad Vogele 3:21 pm on October 20, 2009 Permalink |
I am 100% a follower of Christ. I also believe I am fairly intelligent =) I am saying that God is the Great Designer and our level of understanding is growing everyday with the use of science. What I know is that the word “evolution” has been misconstrued into a term that is not in line with what is stated in the bible. I see things evolve everyday. Ideas, technology and the physical appearance of biological organisms change on a daily basis. Some just take longer than others.
Ad Vogele 3:34 pm on October 20, 2009 Permalink |
One more thing…from what I have read in numerous articles and a scientific journal is that everyone’s DNA can be traced back to two people in Africa. Can this be the Adam and Eve the bible is referring to? When God said, “let there be light,” what could that have sounded like? Maybe a big bang? The reality of the world we live in now (how we see it) and the world God has created fascinates me.
Tessa 3:39 pm on October 20, 2009 Permalink
I think it is possible, though there is no telling. I enjoy not knowing but forever wondering. The real question is, what will we find out after we’re dead? Or, are we dead and that’s it. Nothing. What a disappointing thought.
STRTLRS 7:05 am on October 21, 2009 Permalink |
So you believe everything is God. When somebody falls ill, goes to a hospital and is saved, you see the hand of God? i see the hands of men and women who busted their asses going to med school for years to save human lives. And they use medicine (a branch of science) to cure, using medications invented by another group of individuals who equally busted their asses to find chemical compounds that would help people heal. Sorry to break it to you, science is NOT the work of God. It is not in “God’s” best interest for people to find out the truth.
Andie 5:32 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
God only knows…
tp 6:35 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
hey im christian but i am a different kind of christian. i definitely don’t believe that whole Adam and eve thing and all your talking about. not all people who believe in intelligent design believe in those ridicules things. i think that the bible just has metaphors to live by and to know to know whats right and wrong. but they did prove that jesus christ existed so you know there has to be something. so many criticize mostly the christian religion but i think that the 2012 thing and stuff like that is just as ridicules as talking snakes. i mean giants that came to the earth in ufos>>?? and taught everybody the whole calender of the earth from year 0 to when it ends?? i mean i don’t hear anybody critiziseing stuff like that. i mean if god is real i would rather be safe then sorry
Dave Scrimsher 8:33 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Are you completely serious dude? “A different kind of Christian”? You mean one of those who sins all day and goes to church to cleanse yourself? You’re a Christian but you don’t believe in Adam and Eve?
You have contradicted everything you brought up in the worst way… Then your last line is “if God is real I would rather be safe then sorry”? What kind of crap is that! I’m not claiming to be of any greatness, but you just have your shit backwards dude. Haha.
STRTLRS 2:17 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Let’s not forget that the people who believe in creation, or as it is known nowadays, “intelligent design”, are the same people who believe in Adam and Eve, talking snakes and that the woman came out of a man’s rib. They also believe in virgin apparitions, and figures appearing on toast and the side of buildings.
But they won’t believe in evolution, a process that is very likely and has been demonstrated many many times by the scientific community. Ardi is not the work of science or God, it’s simply nature at work.
Don 2:46 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Agree with your second paragraph, you’re spot on – the scientific community has definitely played a huge role in proving the way nature operates. No matter what, science does prove that evolution exists. As for your “people who believe in creation” – are you referring to a specific religion or belief? Or just people in general?
STRTLRS 3:29 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Not to sound like a smartass, but how many religions do you know that believe in talking snakes and Adam and Eve? It’s pretty obvious I was referring to Christians.
Don 4:01 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Well I didn’t want to be too direct, but I knew it was Christians – I was just looking for a nice way to say Christians Vs. A general population of non-Christians… No smart-ass attitude taken.
I personally think Christians are outrageous. There is a local pastor here at a small to medium sized church that makes 250k/yr. Churches……
STRTLRS 6:58 am on October 21, 2009 Permalink
I only took Christians as an example because they are more abundant in the US. Jews and Muslims are equally crazy in their beliefs, and let’s not even get into all the different sects and ramifications. But this discussion isn’t necessarily about religion so I’ll leave it there.
mintflo 12:59 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
I’ve gotta say also that it was a great program. The evidence pointing toward Darwin’s theories is drastic, but will always provide a strong debate against people with strong religious beliefs…
Peter 12:47 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Amazing program, despite the origin of human beings. The theories they predict are rather compelling, though they are still just theories – which means there is no significant real proof. I’m not saying either way, but it’s an extremely interesting discovery nonetheless.
Thanks.
Kyle 8:04 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
Peter,
There is a difference between a scientific theory and the every day use of the word theory. In every day use, a theory is a guess. In science that is called a hypothesis. The hypothesis is then tested and is either validated or refuted. A scientific theory is an explanatory model for some natural phenomenon that has been validated through numerous hypothesis tests and has been validated. Scientific hypotheses do not become theories until they have been vigorously tested and validated. For instance, the theory of gravity has been vigorously tested. Likewise the theory of evolution is well tested. Science does not have “proofs.” Proofs only exist in mathmatics. However, scientific theories are usually so strongly validated that they are nearly proofs. However, even the theory of gravity does not work perfectly, but I would not use that as a justification for jumping off a cliff since the “theory of gravity” might not have total proof.
Peter 10:38 am on October 16, 2009 Permalink |
What are you some kind of Scientist or somethin? We got a real know it all on our hands here. Why don’t you go ahead and explain how the universe was created too?
Anti Vigilante 10:53 am on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Devin, devin, devin
…and that’s all there is to it – whine: translation ’stfukthxbai”
…just put these creatures – whine: only idiots believe God just drops stuff
…God’s plan – whine
As a computer programmer, I’ve found making room for dynamic changes on the spot changes works best… hmm what a great idea
Devin I hate to burst your bubble, but for one thing Natural Selection produces mediocrity. It produces survivor parasites not creative productive lifeforms.
Not saying Evolution is wrong just scientists are full of funny ideas, especially the ones who think unnecessary features should disappear – you know the ones who wonder like knee jerkers why we still have an appendix.
These scientists don’t even comprehend their own theory. The reason we still have an appendix is because it was never a feature that degraded performance.
FEATURES THAT ARE UNNECESSARY DON’T GO AWAY UNLESS THEY ARE A DISADVANTAGE.
Devin Marks 12:29 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
So I see your point, at least you believe in some form of evolution. Not being a scientist myself, I can’t really be the one to tell you if scientists can comprehend their theories or not. Your rant is pretty good, but you aren’t clearly stating your opinion…
Do you believe Ardi and it’s “evolution” (we’ll leave the technicalities out of that topic for now), were a product of a greater being that was planned, or some sort of “natural change”?
Anti Vigilante 12:46 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
I consider being prepared a kind of planning. I think if God planned everything to every detail from the beginning instead of using good design habits, then he would a be an obsessed psychopath.
I don’t think God is a psychopath.
Peter 12:57 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
I can work with good design for an answer personally, though I do think that design is altered by nature – significantly. If I had to determine a God’s state of mind, it would have to be non-human-like to psychopath wouldn’t fall into that category.
mintflo 3:28 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink
Keep chatting. Just putting in a little test comment here.
Devin Marks 12:38 pm on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
Also, I read someone’s dumb ass comment on some other article regarding Ardi: “Didn’t realize my ex was so ugly…”
Thought people might appreciate that.. haha.
Devin Marks 10:05 am on October 15, 2009 Permalink |
The thing about Ardi and the other scientific discoveries are – THEY ARE SCIENTIFIC, hence, scientific discoveries. If you think that a “God” just put these creatures on the earth, you are nuts. We have evolved from these primitive creatures and that’s all there is to it. And don’t go telling me that it was “God’s Plan” to make these creatures evolve…
Archer Howard 1:09 pm on October 16, 2009 Permalink
Hahaha, that’s an interesting way to look at it. I wish more people would get heated so they can get lit up verbally…